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Soc. And the commonest and greatest pleasures are, as we have often said, those connected with the body, are they not?
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Pro. Certainly.
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Soc. Are they greater, then, and do they become greater in those who are ill or in those who are in health? Let us take care not to answer hastily and fall into error. Perhaps we might say they are greater in those who are in health.
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Pro. That is reasonable.
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Soc. Yes, but are not those pleasures the greatest which gratify the greatest desires?
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Pro. That is true.
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Soc. But do not people who are in a fever, or in similar diseases, feel more intensely thirst and cold and other bodily sufferings which they usually have; and do they not feel greater want, followed by greater pleasure when their want is satisfied? Is this true, or not?
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Pro. Now that you have said it, it certainly appears to be true.
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Soc. Then should we appear to be right in saying that if we wished to discover the greatest pleasures we should have to look, not at health, but at disease? Now do not imagine that I mean to ask you whether those who are very ill have more pleasures than those who are well, but assume that I am asking about the greatness of pleasure, and where the greatest intensity of such feeling normally occurs. For we say that it is our task to discover the nature of pleasure and what those who deny its existence altogether say that it is. This paradox means what those say it is who deny that it is really pleasure.
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Pro. I think I understand you.
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Soc. Presently, Protarchus, you will show that more clearly, for I want you to answer a question. Do you see greater pleasures—I do not mean greater in number, but greater in intensity and degree—in riotous living or in a life of self-restraint? Be careful about your reply.
