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Soc. In fact, they differ most especially on these points?
112
Alc. Very much so.
112
Soc. And I suppose you never yet saw or heard of people differing so sharply on questions of health or the opposite as to fight and kill one another in battle because of them.
112
Alc. No, indeed.
112
Soc. But on questions of justice or injustice I am sure you have; and if you have not seen them, at any rate you have heard of them from many people, especially Homer. For you have heard i.e., at the recitations of rhapsodes; cf. the Ion of Plato. the Odyssey and the Iliad?
112
Alc. I certainly have, I suppose, Socrates.
112
Soc. And these poems are about a difference of just and unjust
112
Alc. Yes.
112
Soc. And from this difference arose the fights and deaths of the Achaeans, and of the Trojans as well, and of the suitors of Penelope in their strife with Odysseus.
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Alc. That is true.
112
Soc. And I imagine that when the Athenians and Spartans and Boeotians lost their men at Tanagra, 457 B.C. and later at Coronea, 447 B.C. among whom your own father perished, the difference that caused their deaths and fights was solely on a question of just and unjust, was it not?
112
Alc. That is true.
112
Soc. Then are we to say that these people understand those questions, on which they differ so sharply that they are led by their mutual disputes to take these extreme measures against each other?
112
Alc. Apparently not.
112
Soc. And you refer me to teachers of that sort, whom you admit yourself to be without knowledge?
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Alc. It seems I do.
112
Soc. Then how is it likely that you should know what is just and unjust, when you are so bewildered about these matters and are shown to have neither learnt them from anyone nor discovered them for yourself?.
112
Alc. By what you say, it is not likely.
112
Soc. There again, Alcibiades, do you see how unfairly you speak?
112
Alc. In what ?
112
Soc. In stating that I say so.
112
Alc. Why, do you not say that l do not know about the just and unjust?
112
Soc. Not at all.
112
Alc. Well, do I say it?
112
Soc. Yes.
112
Alc. How, pray ?
