Book 5
466
Do you recall, said I, that in the precedingCf. 419 E-20. argument the objection of somebody or other rebuked us for not making our guardians happy, since, though it was in their power to have everything of the citizens, they had nothing, and we, I believe, replied that this was a consideration to which we would return if occasion offered, but that at present we were making our guardians guardians and the city as a whole as happy as possible, and that we were not modellingCf. 420 C. Omitting τό, translate that we were not fixing our eyes on any one class, and portraying that as happy. our ideal of happiness with reference to any one class? I do remember, he said. Well then, since now the life of our helpersἐπικούρων: the word here includes the rulers. has been shown to be fairer and better than that of the victors at Olympia, need we compareκατά, comparable to, on a level with. Cf. Apology 17 B, Gorgias 512 B. it with the life of cobblers and other craftsmen and farmers? I think not, he said. But further, we may fairly repeat what I was saying then also, that if the guardian shall strive for a kind of happiness that will unmake μηδέ: cf. 420 D. him as a guardian and shall not be content with the way of life that is moderate and secure and, as we affirm, the best, but if some senseless and childish opinion about happiness shall beset him and impel him to use his power to appropriate everything in the city for himself, then he will find out that HesiodHes. WD 40. So Plat. Laws 690 E. was indeed wise, who said that the half was in some sort more than the whole. Hes. WD 40 If he accepts my counsel, he said, he will abide in this way of life. You accept, then, as we have described it, this partnership of the women with our men in the matter of education and children and the guardianship of the other citizens, and you admit that both within the city and when they go forth to war they ought to keep guard together and hunt together as it were like hounds, and have all things in every way, so far as possible, in common, and that so doing they will do what is for the best and nothing that is contrary to female human natureτήν: this order is frequent and sometimes significant in the Laws. Cf. 690 C, 720 E, 814 E, 853 A, 857 D, 923 B. in comparison with male or to their natural fellowship with one another. I do admit it, he said. Then, I said, is not the thing that it remains to determine this, whether, namely, it is possible for such a community to be brought about among men as it is in the other animals,Cf. on 451 D. The community in this case, of course, refers only to occupations. and in what way it is possible? You have anticipated, he said, the point I was about to raise. Forμὲν γάρ: forced transition to a delaying digression. as for their wars, I said, the manner in which they will conduct them is too obvious for discussion. How so, said he. It is obvious that they will march out together,So with modifications Laws 785 B, 794 C-D, 804 D-E, 806 A-B, 813-814, 829 E. and, what is more, will conduct their children to war when they are sturdy, in order that, like the children of other craftsmen,For this practice of Greek artists see Klein, Praxiteles, Newman, Introduction to Aristotle Politics p. 352, Pater, The Renaissance 104, Protagoras 328 A, Laws 643 B-C, Protagoras frag. 3 (Diels), Aristotle Politics 1336 b 36, Iambl. Protrept. xx., Polyb. vi. 2. 16, iii. 71. 6 καὶ παιδομαθῆ περὶ τὰ πολεμικά, Aristides x. 72 who quoted Plato; Antidotus, Athenaeus, 240 B, where the parasite boasts that he was a παιδομαθής in his art, and Sosipater, Athenaeus 377 F, where the cook makes the same boast, Phocyl. frag. 13, (Edmonds, Elegy and IambusI., L.C.L.), Henry Arthur Jones, Patriotism and popular Education, Kipling, From Sea to Sea, p. 361. Greek language and satire contrasted such παιδομαθεῖς with the ὀψιμαθεῖς or late learners. they may observe the processes of which they must be masters in their maturity;
