Book 2
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Clin. So it appears.
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Ath. In point of truth, which of the two judgements shall we say is the more authoritative,—that of the worse soul or that of the better.
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Clin. That of the better, undoubtedly.
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Ath. Undoubtedly, then, the unjust life is not only more base and ignoble, but also in very truth more unpleasant, than the just and holy life.
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Clin. It would seem so, my friends, from our present argument.
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Ath. And even if the state of the case were different from what it has now been proved to be by our argument, could a lawgiver who was worth his salt find any more useful fiction than this (if he dared to use any fiction at all in addressing the youths for their good), or one more effective in persuading all men to act justly in all things willingly and without constraint?
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Clin. Truth is a noble thing, Stranger, and an enduring; yet to persuade men of it seems no easy matter.
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Ath. Be it so; yet it proved easy to persuade men of the Sidonian fairy-tale, About Cadmus; cp. Plat. Rep. 414c. incredible though it was, and of numberless others.
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Clin. What tales?
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Ath. The tale of the teeth that were sown, and how armed men sprang out of them. Here, indeed, the lawgiver has a notable example of how one can, if he tries, persuade the souls of the young of anything, so that the only question he has to consider in his inventing is what would do most good to the State, if it were believed; and then he must devise all possible means to ensure that the whole of the community constantly, so long as they live, use exactly the same language, so far as possible, about these matters, alike in their songs, their tales, and their discourses. If you, however, think otherwise, I have no objection to your arguing in the opposite sense.
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Clin. Neither of us, I think, could possibly argue against your view.
