Kitap 7
819
Ath. My dear Clinias, when I was told quite lately of our condition in regard to this matter, I was utterly astounded myself: it seemed to me to be the condition of guzzling swine rather than of human beings, and I was ashamed, not only of myself, but of all the Greek world.Cp. Plat. Rep. 528c.
819
Clin. Why? Tell us what you mean, Stranger.
819
Ath. I am doing so. But I can explain it better by putting a question. Answer me briefly: you know what a line is?
819
Clin. Yes.
819
Ath. And surface?
819
Clin. Certainly.
819
Ath. And do you know that these are two things, and that the third thing, next to these, is the solid?
819
Clin. I do.
819
Ath. Do you not, then, believe that all these are commensurable one with another?
819
Clin. Yes.
820
Ath. And you believe, I suppose, that line is really commensurable with line, surface with surface, and solid with solid?
820
Clin. Absolutely.
820
Ath. But supposing that some of them are neither absolutely nor moderately commensurable, some being commensurable and some not, whereas you regard them all as commensurable,—what do you think of your mental state with respect to them?
820
Clin. Evidently it is a sorry state.
820
Ath. Again, as regards the relation of line and surface to solid, or of surface and line to each other—do not all we Greeks imagine that these are somehow commensurable with one another?
820
Clin. Most certainly.
820
Ath. But if they cannot be thus measured by any way or means, while, as I said, all we Greeks imagine that they can, are we not right in being ashamed for them all, and saying to them, O most noble Greeks, this is one of those necessary things which we saidPlat. Laws 818a: cp. Aristot. Pol. 1338a.9 ff. it is disgraceful not to know, although there is nothing very grand in knowing such things.
820
Clin. Of course.
820
Ath. In addition to these there are other matters, closely related to them, in which we find many errors arising that are nearly akin to the errors mentioned.
820
Clin. What are they?
